Our founder, James, discusses the complexities of sustainable packaging with one of our clients, Stephen Sunley of TALA, who leads the way on all things sustainable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I try not to lead the customers when we have discussions about packaging and things like that. It\u2019s understanding their business and their journey. And obviously for someone like yourself, the brand is about sustainable products \u2014 so it\u2019s important that that replicates through everything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, and again, it’s seeing it through the whole package. There’s no point doing a fantastic recycled cardboard box if you then put Sellotape onto it or staples into it \u2014 because if that then goes into the recycling, that contaminates whatever’s trying to be recycled.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So, you need to make that transition to the paper tapes. There’s no chemicals, there’s no glues in the packaging as well. Otherwise, there\u2019s no point making all these recycled boxes if then they actually can’t be recycled at the end.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
The primary point of packaging is to get it to your customers. The minimum you expect from it is to get your products to customers in really good condition. There\u2019s no point using a fungus-based eco-friendly in-box protection when you’ve got 20 damages \u2014 because the CO2 footprint to keep replacing that product, to keep doing it \u2014 that’s a massive part of what we do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Obviously, making sure the damage rates for yourself is going to be relatively low.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Steve, I guess for you \u2014 I\u2019ve seen some companies shipping in paper bags and polymer. And I guess that’s a nice idea, but again \u2014 how far do you go? If you stick that on a plane, and it’s getting wet, and it’s sat for four or five days wet, you’re getting the products damaged.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, I think the technology’s getting there. And there are improvements. I’m seeing a lot of new methods, new materials, new treatments that can be added to paper as well \u2014 that are going to get paper there in terms of durability and adding a level of water repellence.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We are shipping globally \u2014 a global package could be on and off multiple vehicles, trains, planes, trucks, lots of pairs of hands. It needs to withstand that journey.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But it goes back to a point \u2014 it is bigger, it’s heavier. All that movement is adding to that carbon footprint.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
There are new technologies and compostable materials, but again, shipping those around the world \u2014 not everyone has composting available. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
No, and also there is a debate \u2014 compostable can cause microplastics, which then go into the ground, consumed by fish, then we consume the fish.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We’re all working towards advancing these things \u2014 but you have to realise when something\u2019s there, and when it’s not quite there. And not to jump on a bandwagon. Make sure it represents your brand \u2014 because it needs to do what you want it to do.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I guess one of the challenges from your very customer-focused brand is the reality of \u2014 what’s the best carbon, lowest pollution total solution versus what’s the perception the customer gets?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
If it’s not in paper \u2014 it’s not eco-friendly in some customers\u2019 minds. And they don\u2019t care it’s been on a jet plane. They don\u2019t care that the paper took all this time to bleach and process \u2014 they just want it in paper because that’s their mindset.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
You’ve hit the nail on the head. We can ship a package to a customer in a nice beautiful brown paper bag, and they go: “Great, this is a really eco-friendly company, I know what to do with this, I can put this in my recycling.” And you’ve made that custom happy, and you thinl that’s great.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But that’s really, I suppose, the easy option because it ticks that box.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And that’s the challenge for you as a business, isn’t it? It’s not you knowing what’s right \u2014 it’s transferring that into educating the customer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And the easy option is to go down the paper mailing bags route \u2014 but actually, that’s seriously going to have an impact on the carbon footprint of your business.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It’s a hard balance between consumer perception and actual company drivers.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We hold ourselves accountable to our customers. We’ll regularly get contacts going, “Why are you using plastic bags?” And we go \u2014 well, they are 100% recycled, they\u2019re 100% recyclable.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
There are other options \u2014 but actually, at the moment, although it may not be the obvious solution, this is still giving us the best solution for what we need \u2014 to get our products to our customers in good condition the first time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We recently did a product range that was actually made from Lyocell materials \u2014 it’s a wood pulp. It’s really interesting because it\u2019s just a byproduct from the milling industry. They have the pulp left, and we were able to turn that into materials and make clothes out of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So again, there are examples where these things can work in harmony \u2014 where you can take some of these agricultural wastes or byproducts and turn them into something new.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But recycling is a bit of a red herring in there. It is so energy-consuming to actually go through that recycling process.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, and what you said about reusing waste from one process to make something else \u2014 that’s true recycling, and that’s the one that’s got the least impact. Because you’ve got to pay to dispose of the product anyway.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I’m thinking unexpectedly \u2014 the shipping boxes do for us. We’ve got return glue strips on them. You see a lot of companies now using two glue strips, so you can reuse the packaging on the return journey.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Now that’s obviously not perfect \u2014 but at least you get to use it twice if you’re going to return a product. Or you can keep it and return something else.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
That reusing is almost so much better than recycling<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yes, completely but again, it needs that customer education to go with it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It’s like the truest form of recycling isn’t it, to reuse something.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Your product is being an active product \u2014 the amount of times it’s going to be washed, maybe compared to say a coat or something like that \u2014 you really have to get your technologies in your product really honed, don\u2019t you?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Absolutely. Activewear goes through a lot of stress \u2014 squats, gym sessions \u2014 the clothing’s going through a lot of stress.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And intrinsically, a recycled product doesn\u2019t hold the same strength that the original product had. A lot of our recycled materials just don\u2019t have that inherent strength.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So to actually make them withstand the use is a real challenge.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Otherwise, if your normal leggings last you five years but your recycled ones last you 12 months \u2014 then it\u2019s not really gaining anything back for the planet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, I guess if you\u2019ve got to make five pairs \u2014 it\u2019s probably worse than making one decent pair originally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Absolutely. You might as well have made the one pair originally.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So we have to find ways of actually getting that strength back into the product. We do use mixes of little bits of Lycra and elastic \u2014 things which help to hold that fabric together.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But then the challenge is \u2014 obviously, you wash it a lot. If you’re getting sweaty in the gym, you then wash your clothes, and obviously then you’re into microplastics.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Microplastics aren\u2019t exclusive to the original clothes. When it’s recycled and made into something else \u2014 you\u2019re still going to have that issue. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Coming off in the washing machine actually creates some microplastics?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yes, so that comes straight off the clothes, straight out of the washing machine, and into the water streams.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
There are things you can do. Some washing machines will have a certain level of filtration to take that out. But you can also get mesh bags to wash your clothing in, which will help capture some of those microplastics.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, I\u2019ve never even considered microplastics from the washing process. Obviously, I\u2019m familiar with microplastics in the packaging industry \u2014 but not from washing clothes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, so it’s definitely \u2014 anything synthetic is worth getting a filter bag for. You bag it all up before you wash it, and it just traps those microplastics. And it would just be like fluff.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
What do you do with that fluff? I can see someone washing the bag out to get the fluff out the bag.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yes, so really you just need to capture it and pop it into the bin. It’s so much better than having it go into the water course.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yes, absolutely. So tell me about the journey. Have you evolved more in the last two or three years than you had previously \u2014 because the technologies are now catching up with the brand?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, it\u2019s definitely been an interesting time to grow a brand. We started in May 2019, so we\u2019re not even three years old yet. And for most of that period, it feels like we’ve been in a pandemic \u2014 so it’s not necessarily been the easiest environment.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We couldn\u2019t visit people like yourselves, we couldn\u2019t get out to see packaging suppliers. Everything had to be done over video conferencing. That made it a lot more challenging to move at the pace we would have liked in some areas.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But we’ve definitely grown. We know some of the weaknesses we’ve got, and we know what we\u2019d really like.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Even within clothing, there are some really interesting new technologies coming through. I\u2019ve seen some examples of leggings made from seaweed material \u2014 which, again, is just a plant. If that grows naturally, you can just pick it and turn it into something. That\u2019s far better than using oil to make synthetic clothes.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s definitely been an interesting period to try and grow a brand.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Alex and I were chatting just before this, and something really stuck with me. You said: a lot of companies build the product first, and then only think about fulfilment and packaging at the very end. So when did Tala start thinking about how you were going to ship efficiently, package efficiently \u2014 all those elements that really make the brand?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, absolutely. I think from the start, the brand DNA had that vision. Our founder saw a gap in the market for sustainable activewear, and the mission was always to stay true to ourselves \u2014 to make sure that carried through everything we did.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s not to say we got it all right from day one. There were mistakes. We tried things that didn\u2019t work. Technologies moved, even in a short space of time.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And sometimes, it comes down to cost \u2014 you\u2019ve got an option that\u2019s 5p, and a better option that\u2019s 10p. So yeah, we\u2019ve had to sacrifice a bit of margin to do the right thing.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Did you always fulfil orders in-house? Were there ever moments where the founder was packing them at home?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So, we weren\u2019t quite back-room levels, but we did start a lot smaller.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We had another fulfilment provider for probably about the first six months \u2014 but we quickly outgrew them.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
How did you know you’d reached that point?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
One of the big challenges for our business is we do product drops \u2014 we launch new collections, and we\u2019ve got a fantastic following on social media.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
So when we launch something, there’s real hype and real buzz. We can go from doing 100 orders one day to 4,000 orders the next.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s very hard to manage in-house without relying heavily on temps, agencies, and trying to flex your workforce overnight.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s really what led us to say \u2014 we\u2019ve outgrown where we are, and we need someone that can flex with us. That\u2019s what James & James offered us.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
At what point did packaging become a real consideration? Was it right from the start?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, I\u2019d say really from day one.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It had to be a sustainable product, made in a sustainable way, and shipped in sustainable packaging.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We didn\u2019t get it all perfect. We didn\u2019t get it all right from the start. But we\u2019ve learned, we\u2019ve evolved, and we\u2019ve kept moving with it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
As we\u2019ve grown, we\u2019ve been able to do more \u2014 hold factories accountable, push for better standards.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
It\u2019s really hard to go to a factory and say, \u201cWe want 500 leggings, but can you put them all in recycled plastic, pack them in recycled boxes, use special labels, etc.?\u201d For them, it\u2019s not worth the effort.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But once you’re ordering 5,000 or 10,000 units, it\u2019s different. Now they\u2019ll do it \u2014 or risk losing your business. That\u2019s when we can really drive the standards we want.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
And as we\u2019ve grown over the last couple of years, we\u2019ve been able to work with some bigger factories \u2014 ones that we couldn\u2019t have worked with a couple of years ago. They\u2019re already further along that sustainability journey.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Our outerwear factory in Vietnam, for example, is run from solar panels. They do a lot of work within the local community and environment \u2014 maintaining high standards.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s obviously a key driver for you guys \u2014 the product you\u2019ve got, the brand values you hold.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Absolutely. I\u2019d love to say we make everything in a factory that\u2019s solar-powered, with 100% recycled materials everywhere \u2014 but the world\u2019s not quite there yet.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
No. And I think you have to acknowledge that \u2014 we have to grow this brand, we have to do what we can do, but it has to achieve what we\u2019re trying to achieve. Not just tick a box for the sake of it.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Sustainability is going to have a massive drive in manufacturing, but it’s about being realistic too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah \u2014 I guess that\u2019s the challenge. In manufacturing, packaging \u2014 the whole sustainability piece \u2014 there\u2019s always a trade-off.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
There\u2019s no magic bullet solution. It\u2019s not as simple as saying, “We\u2019ll do everything in paper, therefore it\u2019s perfect.”<\/p>\n\n\n\n
There are multiple factors to consider. It’s about balancing one against the other \u2014 to come to what you feel, or what the business feels, is the best solution that ticks as many boxes as you can.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yes, absolutely. And obviously one of the challenges with manufacturing is you\u2019re operating in multiple countries \u2014 so you need packaging that can be sourced locally in each of those places. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
There are two aspects, especially when you look at social media and customer perception . There’s a lot of businesses get a bad reputation because they\u2019re using sustainable practices in theory, but the execution isn\u2019t what the customer sees.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We know from research that 90% of customers wouldn\u2019t buy from a company that didn\u2019t use sustainable packaging.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But we also try to use it not just to avoid negative feedback \u2014 but to actually engage people positively. Make it part of the brand story.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, so we’re are essentially a brand that was formed and founded with social media at its heart \u2014 so I guess that accountability is even more present for you.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Social media is a fantastic tool \u2014 it\u2019s what\u2019s got us to where we are now. But equally, if you do something wrong, it\u2019s there for everyone to see very quickly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019ve all seen those examples where someone orders something online and it arrives in 20 separate boxes \u2014 and it goes straight on social media.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
That\u2019s not the story you want out there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re definitely accountable to our customers in that respect \u2014 and that includes how we get products to them, how we package them, and the story that packaging tells.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We run a whitepaper every year \u2014 and we get more and more engagement each time. Customers are increasingly prepared to interact, rate the packaging, and share feedback.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Social media is almost free media \u2014 but like you said, if something\u2019s wrong, it\u2019s amplified very quickly.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Exactly \u2014 and customers are starting to hold businesses accountable directly. Sending a letter and not getting a response isn\u2019t very painful.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But send an image through social media, tag the brand \u2014 that has clout. That forces accountability much quicker.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Steve \u2014 just to wrap things up \u2014 where do you think the future is for packaging at Tala?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I think there are certainly new technologies coming through. Compostable materials are improving \u2014 and science is going to lead a lot of this.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But even without changing materials, using technology like packing machines or automation that right-size packaging to the product \u2014 that\u2019s a massive starting point.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Even if you\u2019re using the same material \u2014 if you\u2019re using less of it \u2014 that’s going to drastically reduce the environmental impact.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Really, it’s about using technology to use less of what we\u2019re currently using \u2014 and letting science push new materials forward in parallel.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, and the knock-on effect of that is huge \u2014 if everyone uses right-sized packaging, carriers can fit more parcels per van, reduce CO2 emissions \u2014 all of that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Exactly. Everything just shrinks down.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
We\u2019re working with our factory in Vietnam at the moment \u2014 for next season\u2019s outerwear collection, we\u2019ve asked them to vacuum-pack everything.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
By doing that, we\u2019ll about halve the size of the products when packed.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, if it\u2019s going by air or even by sea \u2014 halving it means 50% fewer planes, fewer containers, fewer emissions.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Yeah, so we bring that by sea as it’s the most carbon efficient method to bring it from there.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But if we can half the size of that shipment, and then it’s half the size again when it leaves here to go to our customers. That’s a huge impact, for something that’s actually quite simple and relatively easy to do. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Was that something the manufacturer offered you \u2014 or something you pushed for?<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Something we\u2019ve pushed for.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
With our first outerwear collection last year \u2014 it was small, a trial run \u2014 we didn\u2019t have the influence to get factories to change processes like that.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
But now we\u2019re working on next season’s collection \u2014 and we really hope to get that vacuum-packing in place.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Not just for us \u2014 but once the factory has that process in place, they can use it for other clients too.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
Absolultey. <\/p>\n\n\n\n
Brilliant. Steve, Alex \u2014 thank you both very much.<\/p>\n\n\n\n
I know you\u2019ve got a lot of orders to get out \u2014 appreciate you taking the time to join us today.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"
Sustainability is a tricky topic to get right. Sometimes the most eco-friendly packaging option is not an obvious choice, and can even damage a brand\u2019s reputation if the customer isn\u2019t educated on the matter.<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":9,"featured_media":25462,"comment_status":"closed","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"video","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"_lmt_disableupdate":"yes","_lmt_disable":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[376],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-25461","post","type-post","status-publish","format-video","has-post-thumbnail","hentry","category-scale-up","post_format-post-format-video"],"acf":[],"modified_by":"James Dillon","featured_image_src":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/Macfarlane-TALA.jpg","featured_image_src_square":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-content\/uploads\/2022\/04\/Macfarlane-TALA.jpg","author_info":{"display_name":"J&J Global Fulfilment","author_link":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/author\/james-and-james\/"},"_links":{"self":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/25461","targetHints":{"allow":["GET"]}}],"collection":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts"}],"about":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/types\/post"}],"author":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/users\/9"}],"replies":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/comments?post=25461"}],"version-history":[{"count":0,"href":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/posts\/25461\/revisions"}],"wp:featuredmedia":[{"embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media\/25462"}],"wp:attachment":[{"href":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/media?parent=25461"}],"wp:term":[{"taxonomy":"category","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/categories?post=25461"},{"taxonomy":"post_tag","embeddable":true,"href":"https:\/\/www.ecommercefulfilment.com\/wp-json\/wp\/v2\/tags?post=25461"}],"curies":[{"name":"wp","href":"https:\/\/api.w.org\/{rel}","templated":true}]}}